Almathera Ten Pack 3: CDPD 3/Almathera Ten on Ten - Disc 3: CDPD3.iso/ab20/ab20_archive/text/dmi.conference

Text File | 1995-03-17 | 27KB | 666 lines

** Note: conference transcript has been edited to consolidate long responses

Notice on door: Welcome to the Graphics night with CHRIS.P and DMI! Tonight's
guest is Phil MacGovern of Digital Micronics, here to answer your questions
about the Resolver and SAGE, the upcoming retargetable graphics standard! Be
sure to add your name with the /NAME command (for example: /NAME Jim).

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> We are the manufacturers of the DMI Resolver, a
high resolution graphics processor for the Amiga. It is based on a 60MHz
Texas Instruments 34010 graphics chip. We (in conjunction with Progressive
Peripherals) are the authors of SAGE (Standard Amiga Graphics Environment), a
retargetable graphics system for the Amiga.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> SAGE allows programmers to write programs that are
independent of display hardware. We are also working on several other
products. The 34020 board will have the capacity to display the same
resolutions as the Resolver (which is 2048x2048, BTW) at 24 bit color. It
will support up to 4 TI34082 Math coprocessors that operate in parallel for a
total of 160MFLOPS (million floating operations per sec). A 68030 can do about
1 MFLOP now. THe '020 will have Gouround and Phong shading in hardware.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> It should be able to pump out around 30,000 shaded
polygons per second (Imagine does 2 or 3 now) with the right software.
Availability: April 1 (no April fools).

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> But back to the released products. The first
question most people ask is what software can I run on the Resolver? This is
where SAGE comes in. With SAGE we are trying to get developers to release
themselves from using only the custom amiga chips directly, and to think a
little more about portability. There are many high-quality graphics boards
out there and little software. Most software uses the boards only as a frame
buffer.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The Amiga's graphics were hot several years ago,
but they are lagging now. So, to take advantadge of the hot boards, SAGE was
written (I knew I was going somewhere with this!) SAGE is based entirely on
"graphic environments." An example of a graphics environment would be TMS340,
our superset of TIGA (a graphics standard for IBM PC 340x0 based boards) 0or
some other environment based on the Intel i860, etc.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> When a developer writes for a graphics environment,
he makes standard function calls (draw_line, fill_rect etc) and it up to the
correct hardware specific driver to translate it into a function that the
board can understand. This way, the TMS340 environment is not simply limited
to 340x0 based boards, any board with a driver to translate TMS340 functions
can use a program written for the TMS 340 environment.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I will stop lecturing for a second and answer any
questions.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> OK, here is the format for the questions: To raise your
hand for a question, type /RAISE. Get your question ready, so that when
you're called upon, you can just hit return. With that out of the way, here
is our first question...

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Is it possible to write a hack that will intercept screen
data and perhaps emu the copper list?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> For what purpose, Bill?

<[Bill] W.LEE18> To use the Resolver with progs which don't currently support
SAGE. and to enable virtual screens like a Mac.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes and no. The display memory of the Resolver is
not accessable by the Amiga's 680x0. This means that any program to get data
into the display must put the data thru the 34010, and the Amiga bus isn't
fast enough.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> So it would be no faster than letting Copper draw it?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No. The 34010 is about 10times faster than the
Copper. The best way to get existing programs to run on the Resolver is to
use SetFunction() to intercept all the graphics.library calls, or to simply
rewrite graphics.library (!) but then all programs that break the rules
would die. CBM really screwed up by not doing retargetable graphics from the
start.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, next question...

<[Rick] R.JONES108> Phil, SAGE is a good idea which will need many
supporters, any besides DMI and Progressive peripials lined up (like CBM
would be nice)?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The main supporter that we have is CBM itself. They
have not officially "blessed" it as the standard, but they really like it.
There are several other companies programming for SAGE, they include ASDG,
Gold Disk, Oxxi, Octree, Ditek, and Electronic Arts.

<[Rick] R.JONES108> Next question is (not that I'm really up to the task),
How do I get enough details to start programming for SAGE today?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> All you have to do is call up DMI and get the
developers kit. SAGE itself is a small .library with only 4 functions. It is
the environments of SAGE that do all the work. SAGE simply acts as a
moderator between software and hardware.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> alright, next question...

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> So, SAGE calls are based upon TMS340 funtions?  If so,
then any other graphics board has to translate TMS340 calls.  Do you see a
problem with this?  SAGE's font support is based upon the TIGA builtin font
system, right?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The function calls for the TMS340 environment are
based upon TIGA calls would be a more accurate statement. And for a program
to use the TMS340 environment, yes they would have to translate the
functions. This is can and cannot be a problem, depending on the board and
the speed of the GSP (graphics system processor) if any. To translate all the
functions for the DCTV would be ridiculously slow, but doing it for some of
the other boards (ImpactVision or Firecracker) would be fine - even for CBM's
custom chips.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> ok. Next?

<D.WALKER51> Does SAGE dictate how a 3D object is represented? I mean, does
it care if it is polygons vice something like Real3d?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No, remember SAGE is really a moderator for
environments, not a graphics language itself. There could be an extension to
an environment written that handles 3D in a standard way as there will be
when we release the '020 board.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Next?

<D.WALKER51> Don't you think that developers are going to get upset when they
have to rewrite the way their program thinks?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes and No. It really depends on the program. A
very graphics intensive program is the hardest type to port over, yet the one
that would benefit the most. On the most part SAGE has been recieved very
well by developers, and CBM's blessing will make it hard to turn down.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Next?

<[Bill] W.LEE18> So it is possible to use SAGE with i860 boards? (not that
there are any yet for the Amiga)...

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes. I know of at least one in development.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Also, is there any chance of DMI later incorperating
JPEG/MPEG chips to the Resolvers?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> SAGE can be used by any type of display hardware as
long as there is a driver for it. We are working with board developers to get
more drivers written.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Can you tell us something about the new 24-bit 4 chip
parallel processing Resolver?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes, the '020 board will have a support board,
which will have a JPEG chip, SCSI II controller, and a scan converter built
in (scan converters convert RGB to NTSC) for 30FPS off a hard drive.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> :whistles:

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> We figure about 30 minutes of live video on a 500
meg hard drive. Plus the scan converter will have some video effects built
in, so with the right software, the '020 board is defintely a hot customer.
Unfortunately power doesn't come cheap, the board should list for about $4K
and go up from there depending on config. But when you consider it is the
same speed as a Silicon Graphics Workstation...

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, next question...

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> What slot does the DMI Resolver use, and if it
uses the Video Slot, do you have any plans to make your rumored JPEG card
Toaster-compatible? And what slot will this 020 board use (like I can't
guess)?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The resolver uses a Zorro II slot, and the '020
board uses a Zorro III slot (3000 only).

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> So the Resolver can co-exist with a Toaster?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Since the JPEG board should put out NTSC, it could
go straight into a Toaster, I suppose. Yes, the Toaster and the Resolver work
fine together in the same machine.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The '020 boards memory will be directly accesable
by the 68030, as well, unlike the resolver.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> About the Jpeg board, will that be available for
the 2000, and will it digitize from live video in real time?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Will it be expandable to Mpeg and Mpeg II?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The JPEG board is a daughter board to the '020
board and that works only in 3000s. It will not be able to digitize live
video, and compression is slower than decompression.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> At this time, I dunno. The JPEG chip set does have
a special lossless compression mode that will make MPEG useless.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Sorry to hit you with so many rapid fire
questions. Is there any chance for a seperate real time JPEG compression
board for the A2000. I'm trying to make a nonlinear Video tape editing system
for the Amiga. And the biggest problem is getting the images into the
computer in a reasonable amount of time.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I don't know. Can't you make it 3000 only? The
input should be able to handle 10-15fps. That kind of defeats the purpose
since it's supposed to go with the toaster as as a TV studio in a box.
That's the toasters fault.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I know;  B) How will the resolver handle realtime
animation?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The only thing that this board won't do that the
toaster can do is act as a switcher. Everything else can be done. The output
of the '020 boards NTSC will be MUCH better than the Toaster, definitely
network quailty. The Resolver is not intended to be an animation board. The
Amiga Zorro II bus is too slow to get the required amount of data across...

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Figure each 1280x1024 frame takes up about 1.3
megs, and the Zorro II bus can only transfer around 5 megs per sec. It
doesn't work. The '020s JPEG board has a dedicated SCSI II controller (22
megs per sec) and doesn't even use the Amiga's bus, so it is the animation
machine. One thing I forgot to mention back at the beginning is that we have
an AmigaUnix XWindows driver for the Resolver that runs XWindows, OpenLook,
and Motif, so you can ask question on that too (to interject for a moment).

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Do you have any plans for an Amiga based video
switcher to go with 020, since the Toaster missed that market?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> It would be interesting, but at this time I don't
know.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> Next question...

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> Is anyone working on something similar to QuickTime for
the Mac to work on the Amiga?  Also, what products that support SAGE are
available now?  When is Progressive's graphics board supposed to ship, if you
know and can tell?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I am not that familiar with what QuickTime actually
does. SAGE products available now: (you probably mean Resolver products)
ASDG's saver for our board, Oxxi's presentation Master, Black Belt systems
ImageMaster, and the Paint program that ships with the board. Coming by end
of Feb: Dynacadd and Caligari 2.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> As far as Progressives board, it is supposed to
ship November 1991 ;-)! I really can't say anything about that status of the
board (not that I'm not telling, just I don't know).

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, I'm next <grin> How far is SAGE going to be taken; will
its implementation require two monitors, one for the standard display, and
one for the auxilliary display, or will there [eventually] be operating
system support? g/a

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> If CBM picks it up, then it defintely will have OS
support. And this display configuration of SAGE is up to the display
hardware, not SAGE itself.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> CBM has been planning on making retargetable
graphics part of a future OS release, so we hope they save time and use ours.
CBM really likes SAGE and the Resolver, and is supposedly working on a patch
to get Workbench on our display.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, next question...

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Can you concurrently run SAGE as well as X Windows under
Under 3000 UNIX? I Mean AmigaDos/SAGE as backround on a UNIX system.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Since SAGE is an AmigaDOS concept, and Unix and
AmigaDOS can't run concurrently, no. XWindows is already a retargetable
graphics system.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Also, If I were to buy a Resovlver A can it be later upped
to a C version?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes, definitely. For those who don't know, the
Resolver comes in three models, A, B, and C, each differing in the amount of
VRAM which directly affects display resolution.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, next question...

<[Denny@COMPUT] DENNYA> Could SAGE be retrofitted to work with the standard
Amiga chipset, or any hypothetical future chip sets, or is it TI-chip
specific? Are the calls similar to the ones used with current chipsets (ie-
how complicated is it to port a program)?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The calls for the TMS340 environment are similar to
the Amiga graphics.library function calls. It has everything that
graphics.library has plus more. It definetly is not TI-chips set specific.
All SAGE does is act as an arbitrater for software and graphics hardware. The
TMS340 environment runs under SAGE and all it is is a translation of TIGA
2.2 which is simply a graphics language. It is designed to work on TI chips,
but that doesn't mean interpreters can't be written for other chipsets. If an
i860 board was developed for the Amiga then a driver could be written for it
to process TMS340 functions or a whole new environment could be created for
it.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, next question...

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> You said from my earlier question that the listed
products support the Resolver, not SAGE.  So, these products will not support
other graphics boards that implement SAGE?  What was SAGE for, then?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No, I assumed in correctly, I suppose. ;-) . All
the support for our board uses our implementation of the TMS340 environment
of SAGE. There is no Resolver specific part to any of those programs (except
the paint program, and that is gone in the next release). So that means when
another board supports SAGE, ASDG simply has to rename our saver and they
,support that board. That is what makes SAGE great.

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> Okay, I like that.  I have the technical information on
SAGE, now all I need is a board.  Thanks.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> How would you compare the Resolver to the
Firecracker?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> ok, folks, we're out of formal mode now.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> The smallest Resolver I mean? (cheapest)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The firecracker can only display resolutions of
1024x484 if I am not mistaken, we can display 2048x2048. We are only eight
bits, but...

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> (Is the Resolver interlaced? I believe the FireCracker is)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Ok, the smallest reolver can only display up to
1024x768. But for all those who worry 8 bit sux, at this resolution there is
little difference.

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> The Resolver is great.  It can display 2048 x 2048 on a
Commodore 1950 monitor that is 800 x 600.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> sounds like I need one ;-)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> What about the top of the line resolver, can it
handle 24 bit?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The resolver's resolutions are completely
programmable. It can display up to 1280x1024 noninterlaced, everything higher
is interlaced, but flicker free up to 2048x1600.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The PP&S board is 1024x1024 max interlaced, BTW.
All the Resolver boards are 8 Bit. Our next board (due April 1) is 24 bit,
same resolutions.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Will that board be Zorro II or Zorro III only?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The next board is based on a TI34020 and is
Zorro III only.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Awwww.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Phil, the 24 bit board is 4 chip parallel processing
though, right?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> how is the TI processor going to be handled; will its full
capabilities as a processor be used, or is it only a display driver?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> We need the speed of the bus. The Zorro II is too
sllllllooooooooowwwwwwww

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The 4 TI34082 coprocessors work in parallel, yes.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> In other words, will I be able to ray-trace faster with a
board?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> No plans for a middle of the road 24 bit Zorro II
board?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The use of the processor is up to the program.
There are several companies that are salivating to get the '020s speed. And
some are from non-Amiga markets. Yes there are plans to make the Resolver 24
bit in the future.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Like NeXt?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> YEA!!!!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> no, like Silicon Graphics. I can't name names tho'.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Same board as available now?

<[Bill] W.LEE18> For what? the Indigo? The IRIS is still much faster than a
Resover equiped Amiga

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No, this is the '020 board due in April. The '020
board will do about 30000 shaded polygons per second, the IRIS does about
35000. For 10x the price.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I meant the 24 bit Resolver, will it use the same
board as the 8 bit?

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> So, when will we have a gadget library for SAGE?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> I've a feeling we have awhile to go, mark :)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No, there is a company working on it. No names tho.
They are working on a device independent system that uses SAGE.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I would guess about a month or so away.

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> I know that there is a company working on gadgets, and I
know who it is.  I just wanted to know the status, Phil.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> Do you know if Gold Disk has decided to support SAGE in
ProPage?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Gold Disk just recently got a board and SAGE, so I
would venture to say yes.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> that would be truly great. SAGE is resolution and palette
independent, right?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Most definitely.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Finally we have QuickDraw/Device Independent Graphics! ;)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Do you get royalties for SAGE is say, Impluse
uses it with their Firecracker?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> also, can we expect to see games take advantage of SAGE?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Programs will have to be written to handle the
myriad of choices. Our board for example can display resolutions anywhere
between 64x64 and 2048x2048.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> I imagine that some of the simulations you could make would
be nothing short of phenomenal on a good board/machine.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I know of one game that works on the board in
development now.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> <--- thinking of the ultimate flight/combat sim

<[Xdc] M.NELSON29> Could you imagine the memory and speed required, though?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> I was thinking more along the lines of processor/board
speed, xdc :)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> 24 bit Donkey Kong!!   BP

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Look out CRAY! ;)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> That is what the game is. Since the Resolver is an
entire computer in of itself, host machine speed and memory is not as
important.

<[Xdc] M.NELSON29> Interesting.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> For instance, the '020 board will have up to 24
megs on it.

<M.PRINCE> Nite all.  Thanks for the info, Phil.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> does SAGE support multitasking? Is there a SAGE windowing
system?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> SAGE does support multitasking, and a
windowing/menus/gadgets system is in progress.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Ew yeah!!! Imagine having full Amiga screens as
windows!!!

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> makes the Viking look pretty pathetic, I imagine.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Actually at 2048x2048, about 48 amiga screens are
on one resolver screen, and those are 640x400 screens too.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> sheesh!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No, only about 20, I multiplied wrong.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I'll take a 24 bit resolver to go!

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> I'll take one and wait for it! heheh

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> You should see some images we rendered at 2048x2048
with Imagine. You cannot tell they are only 8 bit. They look AMAZING!

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Really I was close to getting a Firecracker till
tonight.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> let's hope commodore gives SAGE their blessing.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Really, they look hot. If anyone is going to be at
AmiExpo, they can see 'em in person.

<T.ELAM> Excuse me. Is SAGE used by the DMI device?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes, we wrote SAGE, with progressive peripherals.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Will the 24 bit Zorro II Resolver use the same
board as the 8 bit?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Maybe. There are no firm details about that one
yet. That is further down the road.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I'll take one of those also!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> One might ask how CBM is going to get GSA Unix
contracts when all the GSA contracts require 1280x1024 and the A2410 only
does 800x600.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> And we have an Unix XWindows driver.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> And the 2410 is monochrome right!?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> No the A2410 is 8-bit.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> no, 2410 is 256 out of 16.8M (I think)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Well, I'd get an 8 bit resolver if I could one
day upgrade it to 24 bit.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> We are going to offer an upgrade path.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> HeHe, That's a laugh! Have you ever seen how you have to
hack around the IBM bios to mount new technology Phil? ;)

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> now that we have stuff that uses zorroIII, we can really
blow the other platforms away :)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I worked for two years on those pieces of oh IBMS

<[Mark] M.THOMAS24> Oh, I have a question.  I heard that there is a really
long process you have to go through to adjust the Resolver to a particular
monitor. How hard is this, and how long does it take?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I really need 24 bit, and I need it on my 2000!
(ZorroII) I suppose the next big Amiga craze will be Zorro III expansion
boxes for the 2000 and 500!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> There is a process, but the newest software that
comes with the board is much better than the first stuff. It is very
painless, and only needs to be done once when you first get the board.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> I doubt it's possible, Geojoe :-/

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> It's not, we looked into it.

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Give it up JTC. Zorro II is ancient... like 8086 ins. set.
We have to progress unlike IBM! ;)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Everything is possible, but FEASIBLE is another
thing.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> right, I was gonna add that :)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> 2000 Zorro III expansion kit: Replace mother board
with one from a 3000. ;-)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Well see, there you go!!!! So what am I going to
put in the Video slot of my new 3000?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Who needs a video slot?

<[Bill] W.LEE18> I do! for the Toaster!

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Well there's one in there! It should be filled
with some over-expensive card!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Get them to fix the toaster!

<[Bill] W.LEE18> 'workin on that Phil! ;)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Really! I just wish their software was more
multitasking friendly.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Does anyone have any questions about the 20Meg
floptical drive?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> yes!

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Me!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> shoot

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> do they fit in a 3000?

<[Bill] W.LEE18> IS it SCSI II compat?

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> <kneeling and praying to diety>

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes, no.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Nah, I had that reseached up the wazzoo 2 years
ago when Insite came out with it.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> It does fit in a 3000. It is not SCSI II compat (as
far as I know)

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> will it work on a SCSI-II controller, even if it doesn't
support SCSI-II

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I don't know, we don't have any SCSI II controllers

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Will it also read/write other formats? 1.44, 2.88?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Can it be used to replace DF0: and still read
regular AmigaDOS floppies, ie- Games?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> It will read the following formats:

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> 720K AmigaDOS, 1.44Meg AmigaDOS, 720K IBM, 1.44M
IBM and then 20Meggers. Haven't tested Mac floppoes yet. It will NOT read
880K amiga DOS floppies (yet another CBM blunder!)

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> WHAT!!! Why can't it read 880K Floppies?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I don't know the technical details, but it has
something to do with MFM.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> I mean that's like ALL Amiga floppies made to
date!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Yes, I know.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> didn't commodore license the very same mechanisms
themselves?

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I don't know.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> What's the point! I might as well go for a
Syquest.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> I have heard that they did.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> Insite, right? (naah, I'd go floptical myself, fits right
here in the spare drive bay ;-)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The Insite drives have three advantadges over
syquest:

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> 1. Media Size

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> 2. Price per Megabyte (syquest = $2/meg, insite =
$1/meg, expected to go to 40 cents/meg)

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> 3. Data integrity.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> You can't beat $.40 per meg. Is the syquest any
more compatible?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> If there is any possible fix for the 880K problem
I'd tell R&D to do it.

<[Chris] CHRIS.P> just because it looks like a 3.5" disk, I know the
technologies are very different (!)

<[Bill] W.LEE18> Is Flopptical being supported on many other platforms? that
will surely help reduce the cost.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> We have tried. To read 880K floppies, the head
would have to be replaced. Insite has an Amiga now so mabye the next rev of
the drive.

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> But it's like color coding. You can read the
name, but the color speeds things up.

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> The Floptical works on IBMs, Macs, and Unix as
well. Same drive and all.

<FRED.M> hello! what's the latest news?

<[GeojoeC[JTC]] J.COLLINS5> Everything except the Amiga!  LOL!

<[DMI (Phil)] DEBS-GUEST> Where were you two hours ago, Fred? :-)

** Transcript stopped.